Saturday, February 21, 2009

Haldimand "What Happens when You Lie?"

What Happens when you Lie?

Well I think that if you ask "10" people you will get "10" different answers.

I found this exercise very educational and enjoyable. I went to Wikipedia for a few answers. This is what I found;

"Propaganda"

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Propaganda is the dissemination of information aimed at influencing the opinions or behaviors of large numbers of people. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense presents information in order to influence its audience.

Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda.

"Bullshit"

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bullshit (also bullcrap, bullplop, horseshit, bullbutter) is a common English expletive. It may be shortened to "bull" or the euphemism B.S. The term is common in American English. In British English, bollocks is a comparable expletive, although bullshit is now a commonly used expletive in British English as well.

As with many expletives, it can be used as an interjection (or in many other parts of speech) and can carry a wide variety of meanings. Most commonly, it is used in connection with incorrect, misleading, or false language and statements. While the word is generally used in a deprecating sense, it may imply a measure of respect for language skills, or frivolity, among various other benign usages.

In popular philosophy, Harry Frankfurt among others described the word bullshit as related to but distinct from lying

"Lies "

The various types of lies include the following:

"Fabrication"

A fabrication is a lie told when someone submits a statement as truth, without knowing for certain whether or not it actually is true. Although the statement may be possible or plausible, it is not based on fact. Rather, it is something made up, or it is a misrepresentation of the truth. Examples of fabrication: "The dog ate my homework", or "I did unplug the iron".

"Bold-faced lie"

A bold-faced (often also referred to as bare-faced or bald-faced but have slightly different meanings) lie is one which is told when it is obvious to all concerned that it is a lie. For example, a child who has chocolate all around his mouth and denies that he has eaten any chocolate is a bold-faced liar.

"Lying by omission"

One lies by omission by omitting an important fact, deliberately leaving another person with a misconception. Lying by omission includes failures to correct pre-existing misconceptions. A husband may tell his wife he was out at a store, which is true, but lie by omitting the fact that he also visited his mistress, although it is disputable whether or not this is actually a lie. In most cases, the person has not directly denied a truth, but merely omitted some part of what transpired.

"Lie-to-children"

A lie-to-children is a lie, often a platitude which may use euphemism(s), which is told to make an adult subject acceptable to children. A common example is "The stork brought you" (in reference to childbirth).

"White lie"

A white lie would cause no discord if it were uncovered, and offers some benefit to the liar, the hearer, or both. White lies are often used to avoid offense, such as complimenting something one finds unattractive. In this case, the lie is told to avoid the harmful realistic implications of the truth. As a concept, it is largely defined by local custom and cannot be clearly separated from other lies with any authority.

"Noble lie"

A noble lie is one which would normally cause discord if it were uncovered, but which offers some benefit to the liar and assists in an orderly society, therefore potentially beneficial to others. It is often told to maintain law, order and safety. A noble lie usually has the effect of helping an elite maintain power.

"Bluffing"

Pretending to have a capability or intention which one does not actually possess. Bluffing is an act of deception which is rarely seen as immoral, because it takes place in the context of a game where this kind of deception is consented to in advance by the players. For instance, a gambler who deceives other players into thinking he has different cards to those which he really holds, or an athlete who indicates he will move left and then actually dodges right, is not considered to be lying. In these situations, deception is accepted and indeed expected as a tactic.

"Misleading/Dissembling"

A misleading statement is one where there is no outright lie, but there still remains the purpose of making someone believe in an untruth. "Dissembling" likewise implies presenting facts in a way that is literally true, but intentionally misleading.

You can read more at; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie

We’ve all heard these famous quotes; (I am sure there are more, so if you know one please post away!)

If you tell the truth you don’t have to remember anything

If you tell the truth it will set you free

Once you tell a lie, you have to lie to cover up that lie, and eventually you believe your lie to be the truth” (I like that one the best because my mother used to tell me this one)

Liar, liar, pants on fire

And if you are religious, “Lie and you will go straight to Hell

So what happens when one tells a lie? Well I believe that it all depends on the type of Lie! (Wow I can't believe that I said that!)

I recently had a conversation with our 5 year old grand daughter about her first loose tooth, and I told her to not forget to put her tooth under her pillow for the Tooth Fairy. Was this a Lie? Well according to Wikipedia it is a "Lie-to-children" lie, which is much different then say a "bold face" lie.

It is when a lie is told intentionally to the masses is where I have a very serious problem, especially when it is directed at someone I care about.

Unfortunately these types of lies do have their purpose: “to discredit an individual”, "to take someone down", "to make me feel good". I can tell you from my personal experience, it doesn’t feel very good when this happens to you!

So is it okay to Lie? Does an apology after a Lie make it all better? Why do we get so upset when someone tells a Lie about someone we care about?

I read about a blog that stated before anyone read it that their blog was all full of lies, when in fact that was a lie, because the blog was full of truth about the lies!

85 comments:

  1. Are you pointing to Hewitt lying at Queen's Park about Toby not signing the petition?

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  2. We could all learn something about lies from McGuinty.

    You don't necessarily have to tell a lie as long as you are skillful enough at avoiding telling the truth.

    Dennis,

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  3. Sorry,... I just needed to edit the above post.

    ***********************************************

    We could all learn something about lies from McGuinty and McHale.

    You don't necessarily have to tell a lie as long as you are skillful enough at avoiding telling the truth.

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  4. From the above Dennis I would say that McGuinty is not a liar;

    "Bullshit"
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Bullshit (also bullcrap, bullplop, horseshit, bullbutter) is a common English expletive. It may be shortened to "bull" or the euphemism B.S. The term is common in American English. In British English, bollocks is a comparable expletive, although bullshit is now a commonly used expletive in British English as well.

    As with many expletives, it can be used as an interjection (or in many other parts of speech) and can carry a wide variety of meanings. Most commonly, it is used in connection with incorrect, misleading, or false language and statements. While the word is generally used in a deprecating sense, it may imply a measure of respect for language skills, or frivolity, among various other benign usages.

    In popular philosophy, Harry Frankfurt among others described the word bullshit as related to but distinct from lying

    From the above I would also state that Gary Mchale is not a Liar;

    "Propaganda"
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Propaganda is the dissemination of information aimed at influencing the opinions or behaviors of large numbers of people. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense presents information in order to influence its audience.

    Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda.

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  5. Too Funny. I wonder if maybe a few people learned a hard lesson this past week. And to answer one of the questions above, No I do not think that an apology is always good enough especially if it has been forced upon somoene to do.

    "Once a Liar, always a Liar"

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  6. "Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda."

    Sound like every message I have ever heard from any politician.

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  7. Thanks for your comments everyone.

    I would like to make a comment on;

    "Are you pointing to Hewitt lying at Queen's Park about Toby not signing the petition"

    To answer this question. No I was not talking nor hinting that this blog was intended to make one "believe" that Ken Hewitt is a liar. In fact because of what happended this past week I wanted to educate myself further on the "art" of a lie. What I found was there are many forms of lying.

    Ken Hewitt this past week has not told one "lie" nor did he try and spread any "propaganda". How do I know this? Well like I have said many times in the past, if you want to know something, go to the "source".

    So in my personal opinion what had been posted on a few blogs earlier this past week in regards to Ken Hewitt and Toby Barrett was nothing more than "propaganda" in it's finest form!

    Now the funny thing about this is that all of the posts in regards to myself, Judy, Ken and Toby Barrett have been "deleted". So what does that tell you? Well my answer is simple, it is like someone covering up at the office before the authorities come, "shredding paper" get rid of the evidence!

    My only advice to anyone is "don't believe" everything you read or hear, especially if it is damaging to ones reputation!

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  8. Yes it's true, there are many kinds of lies and no, they are not all bad. I think the difference is in the reason the lies are told. For example sometimes a person will tell a lie to protect someone they care about from harm, in many ways a noble thing. The truth does not always set you free, sometimes it can get you in a lot of trouble. But when someone deceives another for the sole purpose of self gratification or self promotion, there you have evil.
    To quote Bob Dylan: "You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time, Abraham Lincoln said that. I'll let you be in my dreams if I can be in your dreams, I said that".

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  9. So are you actually telling us to believe you Donna? How many lies have you told people on your blog? Did you ever apologise? How do you know that Ken Hewitt and Toby Barrett didn't lie to You? One day you will see the truth!

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  10. Donna, yes, a few individuals have been accusing Toby, Hewitt, Judy and yourself of lying.

    But all one has to do is consider the source.

    I too did a little research and came upon this.

    The serial bully
    How to spot signs and symptoms of serial bullies, sociopaths and psychopaths
    including the sociopathic behaviour of the industrial psychopath and the corporate psychopath
    Types of serial bully: The Attention-Seeker, The Wannabe, The Guru and The Sociopath

    "All cruelty springs from weakness."
    (Seneca, 4BC-AD65)

    "Most organisations have a serial bully. It never ceases to amaze me how one person's divisive, disordered, dysfunctional behaviour can permeate the entire organisation like a cancer."
    Tim Field

    "The truth is incontrovertible; malice may attack it, ignorance my deride it, but in the end, there it is."
    Winston Churchill

    "Lack of knowledge of, or unwillingness to recognise, or outright denial of the existence of the serial bully is the most common reason for an unsatisfactory outcome of a bullying case for both the employee and employer"
    Tim Field

    I estimate one person in thirty, male or female, is a serial bully. Who does the following profile describe in your life?

    The serial bully:

    is a convincing, practised liar and when called to account, will make up anything spontaneously to fit their needs at that moment
    has a Jekyll and Hyde nature - is vile, vicious and vindictive in private, but innocent and charming in front of witnesses; no-one can (or wants to) believe this individual has a vindictive nature - only the current target of the serial bully's aggression sees both sides; whilst the Jekyll side is described as "charming" and convincing enough to deceive personnel, management and a tribunal, the Hyde side is frequently described as "evil"; Hyde is the real person, Jekyll is an act
    excels at deception and should never be underestimated in their capacity to deceive
    uses excessive charm and is always plausible and convincing when peers, superiors or others are present (charm can be used to deceive as well as to cover for lack of empathy)

    is glib, shallow and superficial with plenty of fine words and lots of form - but there's no substance

    is possessed of an exceptional verbal facility and will outmanoeuvre most people in verbal interaction, especially at times of conflict

    is often described as smooth, slippery, slimy, ingratiating, fawning, toadying, obsequious, sycophantic
    relies on mimicry, repetition and regurgitation to convince others that he or she is both a "normal" human being and a tough dynamic manager, as in extolling the virtues of the latest management fads and pouring forth the accompanying jargon

    is unusually skilled in being able to anticipate what people want to hear and then saying it plausibly

    cannot be trusted or relied upon

    fails to fulfil commitments

    is emotionally retarded with an arrested level of emotional development; whilst language and intellect may appear to be that of an adult, the bully displays the emotional age of a five-year-old

    is emotionally immature and emotionally untrustworthy
    in a relationship, is incapable of initiating or sustaining intimacy

    holds deep prejudices (eg against the opposite gender, people of a different sexual orientation, other cultures and religious beliefs, foreigners, etc - prejudiced people are unvaryingly unimaginative) but goes to great lengths to keep this prejudicial aspect of their personality secret

    is self-opinionated and displays arrogance, audacity, a superior sense of entitlement and sense of invulnerability and untouchability
    has a deep-seated contempt of clients in contrast to his or her professed compassion
    is a control freak and has a compulsive need to control everyone and everything you say, do, think and believe; for example, will launch an immediate personal attack attempting to restrict what you are permitted to say if you start talking knowledgeably about psychopathic personality or antisocial personality disorder in their presence - but aggressively maintains the right to talk (usually unknowledgeably) about anything they choose; serial bullies despise anyone who enables others to see through their deception and their mask of sanity

    displays a compulsive need to criticise whilst simultaneously refusing to value, praise and acknowledge others, their achievements, or their existence

    shows a lack of joined-up thinking with conversation that doesn't flow and arguments that don't hold water

    flits from topic to topic so that you come away feeling you've never had a proper conversation
    refuses to be specific and never gives a straight answer

    is evasive and has a Houdini-like ability to escape accountability

    undermines and destroys anyone who the bully perceives to be an adversary, a potential threat, or who can see through the bully's mask
    is adept at creating conflict between those who would otherwise collate incriminating information about them

    is quick to discredit and neutralise anyone who can talk knowledgeably about antisocial or sociopathic behaviors

    may pursue a vindictive vendetta against anyone who dares to held them accountable, perhaps using others' resources and contemptuous of the damage caused to other people and organisations in pursuance of the vendetta

    is also quick to belittle, undermine, denigrate and discredit anyone who calls, attempts to call, or might call the bully to account
    gains gratification from denying people what they are entitled to

    is highly manipulative, especially of people's perceptions and emotions (eg guilt)
    poisons peoples' minds by manipulating their perceptions

    when called upon to share or address the needs and concerns of others, responds with impatience, irritability and aggression

    is arrogant, haughty, high-handed, and a know-all

    often has an overwhelming, unhealthy and narcissistic attention-seeking need to portray themselves as a wonderful, kind, caring and compassionate person, in contrast to their behaviour and treatment of others; the bully sees nothing wrong with their behavior and chooses to remain oblivious to the discrepancy between how they like to be seen and how they are seen by others

    is spiritually dead although may loudly profess some religious belief or affiliation

    is mean-spirited, officious, and often unbelievably petty

    is mean, stingy, and financially untrustworthy

    is greedy, selfish, a parasite and an emotional vampire

    is always a taker and never a giver

    is convinced of their superiority and has an overbearing belief in their qualities of leadership but cannot distinguish between leadership (maturity, decisiveness, assertiveness, co-operation, trust, integrity) and bullying (immaturity, impulsiveness, aggression, manipulation, distrust, deceitfulness)

    often fraudulently claims qualifications, experience, titles, entitlements or affiliations which are ambiguous, misleading, or bogus
    often misses the semantic meaning of language, misinterprets what is said, sometimes wrongly thinking that comments of a satirical, ironic or general negative nature apply to him or herself
    knows the words but not the song

    is constantly imposing on others a false reality made up of distortion and fabrication

    sometimes displays a seemingly limitless demonic energy especially when engaged in attention-seeking activities or evasion of accountability and is often a committeeaholic or apparent workaholic

    Responsibility

    The serial bully appears to lack insight into his or her behaviour and seems to be oblivious to the crassness and inappropriateness thereof; however, it is more likely that the bully knows what they are doing but elects to switch off the moral and ethical considerations by which normal people are bound. If the bully knows what they are doing, they are responsible for their behaviour and thus liable for its consequences to other people. If the bully doesn't know what they are doing, they should be suspended from duty on the grounds of diminished responsibility and the provisions of the Mental Health Act should apply.

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  11. Mr. Hewitt has promised to issue a statement about why he lied at Queen's Park. He stated to Merlyn he decided to lie to protect Barrett which may explain why Barrett didn't speak up at Queen's Park and tell the media he had signed the petition.

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  12. Who cares !!

    Gary McHale and his little group of brainwashed sheep are the only ones who seem to be obssessed with this in order to divide and conquer and want to somehow grab some of the spotlight back at the expense of others.

    That's all this is about.

    I like this part in the material posted previously

    "undermines and destroys anyone who the bully perceives to be an adversary, a potential threat, or who can see through the bully's mask
    is adept at creating conflict between those who would otherwise collate incriminating information about them

    is quick to discredit and neutralise anyone who can talk knowledgeably about antisocial or sociopathic behaviors

    may pursue a vindictive vendetta against anyone who dares to held them accountable, perhaps using others' resources and contemptuous of the damage caused to other people and organisations in pursuance of the vendetta"


    Does this sound familiar?

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  13. I provided Mr. McHale with a signed statement about Toby's conversations with me over the past month. Toby repeatedly told me that he had not signed the full petition and that he had crossed out the first statement. It turns out that Toby has not been telling me the truth. I am aware that Toby had also been telling the media that he crossed out the first statement before signing.

    Why does Toby want me and others to believe he didn't sign the full petition? The following is the exact wording of part of my statement to Mr. McHale:

    "We [Toby and I] have also had communications related to the Petition of Mr. Ken Hewitt. Mr. Barrett told me that he signed the petition however claimed he scratched through the section relating to Commissioner Fantino thereby showing he did not agree with the statements regarding Mr. Fantino. Mr. Barrett stated to me as a public servant he may NOT ask for the resignation of another bureaucrat since that is not a public servant's protocol. I accepted that reasoning since I respect the individual and his office. However, he said that if he was to present the Petition to the Ontario legislature he would have to sign the complete Petition as a whole at that time. At this time my only witness is God that this conversation took place between Mr. Barrett and myself."

    When I delivered this signed statement to Mr. McHale he provided me with a letter to be hand delivered to Toby and Hewitt. The letter clearly stated that now that Toby has informed the public he does not agree with the first part of the petition then the laws at Queen's Park make it illegal to present the petition at Queen's Park.

    McHale quoted the section of the law and gave Toby and Hewitt options as to how the petition could be presented but this requires Toby taking steps to clarify his public statements.

    McHale told me he had the stories removed about Toby, Donna and Judy to give time for Hewitt and Toby to publicly do the right thing.

    I will be pissed if Toby refuses to correct his error and the petition is deemed illegal.

    Finally, I am aware Mr. McHale is getting other people to sign statements to Barrett's words over the past month. McHale has noted that even Donna has posted "Toby did sign the petition for item #2" on the previous thread.

    It now appears that Toby signing the petition while telling people he cannot support part of it makes the petition illegal. McHale states the petition is a legal document and anyone who signs it is confirming the truthfulness of the full petition. Signing this legal document while disagreeing with parts of it is swearing falsely before the Assembly at Queen's Park - according to the section from the Legislative Assembly Act that McHale has quoted.

    Why did Toby and Hewitt want the public not to know the truth - I do not know. It better not cause the petition to be illegal.

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  14. "Gary McHale and his little group of brainwashed sheep are the only ones who seem to be obssessed with this in order"

    I guess the information on the previous post changes the picture quite a bit. Everyone who has signed the petition should care if the games being played by Toby and Hewitt end up making the petition illegal.

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  15. I provided Mr. McHale with a signed statement about Toby's conversations with me over the past month. Toby repeatedly told me that he had not signed the full petition and that he had crossed out the "first statement. It turns out that Toby has not been telling me the truth. I am aware that Toby had also been telling the media that he crossed out the first statement before signing.

    Can you believe what people will do Donna? The poster is twisting their own words, how bullish of you!

    "When I delivered this signed statement to Mr. McHale he provided me with a letter to be hand delivered to Toby and Hewitt. The letter clearly stated that now that Toby has informed the public he does not agree with the first part of the petition then the laws at Queen's Park make it illegal to present the petition at Queen's Park."

    Lie....Propaganda.....Petty....Petty....Petty....

    "It now appears that Toby signing the petition while telling people he cannot support part of it makes the petition illegal".

    ditto....ditto....ditto......

    As Donna stated in a previous blog this is -1 signature...my god you are stating that this makes the petition illegal....Petty....Petty...Bully....Propaganda!

    Thanks to the poster above for posting about bullying. This above post has just proved to me that some will not give it up for nothing.....

    Liar, Bully, Proganda....

    I hope that Toby finds all the "moles" in his camp, now someone needs to research that one!

    Donna thank you , we are all being educated today!

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  16. "Everyone who has signed the petition should care if the games being played by Toby and Hewitt end up making the petition illegal."


    I guess the attempt to divide Barrett and Hewitt failed eh?

    So now the plan is to paint them together as the culprits in some sort of conspiracy.

    The drama festival changes course by the hour. This is funny to witness.

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  17. This comment is coming from someone who is not educated in the legalities of a petition;

    I guess the information on the previous post changes the picture quite a bit. Everyone who has signed the petition should care if the games being played by Toby and Hewitt end up making the petition illegal.

    This does not make the petition illegal. It may void "1" name.

    Don't believe the propaganda!

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  18. "This does not make the petition illegal. It may void "1" name."

    I guess your view is that if on a legal document one person falsely sign the document then the document is still legal as long as you alter the document to remove the one name. An altered legal document is not a legal document.

    Besides why has Barrett been lying to people about signing the petition - maybe Donna can finally answer why Barrett isn't being up front about the details.

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  19. Thanks for your comments.

    When I did this blog about lies, bullshit and propaganda I thought that I may help some understand the difference between lying, bullsitting and spreading propaganda. I certainly learned a thing or two myself. Then someone was so kind as to post about bullies and that made me think even more.

    It ceases to amaze me that there are some people out there that will stop at nothing in order to destroy another person!

    I am now trying to decide whether the players the last week are lying, bullshitting, spreading propaganda or are bullying!

    I do agree with the poster that Toby Barrett needs to find the "mole" in his camp. It sounds to me like someone Toby has trusted is part of this dangerous game!

    To the poster that stated that the petition will only void one name is correct! It would be the same situation if someone signed there name twice.

    I was hoping someone would post more "quotes" about lies!

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  20. "To the poster that stated that the petition will only void one name is correct! It would be the same situation if someone signed there name twice."

    Nice to see Donna opinion without checking any law. Hey Donna, did you read up on the Law before posting?

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  21. "Nice to see Donna opinion without checking any law. Hey Donna, did you read up on the Law before posting?"



    Donna, ignore this person. I'm sure we all pretty well know who it is. The ramblings sound so familiar.

    Especially the parts about everyone else is a liar except this person.

    You are right Donna. That information about bullying that was posted sure is an eye-opener. A few people that have stirred this trouble up the past few days seem to fit that profile by the looks of it to me anyways.

    You're holding your own quite nicely Donna. But you're not alone. A lot of others have been the victims of this bunch so the list is long.

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  22. Has the actions of Mr. Barrett caused the petition to become illegal? What is Donna and others going to say if the answer is yes?

    The problem isn't that Toby name can be crossed out but Toby's public statements encourages others to sign even if they do not agree with the full petition. Just how many people have followed Toby's logic? Have you ever heard of any public figure, like Toby, signing a petition then claim he disagrees with a part of it. Even Diane Finley was smart enough to removed silence about signing without any statements about any part of the petition.

    What Toby has done, while people are trying to get signatures, is encourage people to sign who do not agree with the full petition. All McGuinty has to do is claim the petition was gathered under false pretence and suddenly the petition has no credibility.

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  23. "What Toby has done, while people are trying to get signatures, is encourage people to sign who do not agree with the full petition. All McGuinty has to do is claim the petition was gathered under false pretence and suddenly the petition has no credibility"

    Well finally the truth bears it's teeth! This is the ultimate agenda, with the help of a few snitches (look that one up) like the above poster they are determined to undermine the thousands of people that have signed Hewitt's petition. Nice game!

    Hate to be the one to inform you but you will have nothing left when you are done! Nothing!

    Donna if I may I will clarify in regards to Toby and Diane signing for item #2. In the worse case scenario each page, and if I recall each page holds "10" signatures we will lose "20" signatures. No big Deal!

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  24. As I recall when a petition is presented the politician presenting it signs the petition right there in the legislature at that time.

    The Fantino section of the petition was more a personal attack than a policy attack.

    My guess is that petition, as worded will never see the floor in the legislature, it's tainted with controversy and dead on arrival

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  25. Sorry I forgot this one;

    "What Toby has done, while people are trying to get signatures, is "encourage people" to sign who do not agree with the full petition"

    My god this is turning into a soap opera.

    This statemnet is Assuming, bullsitting, lying and most of all "Propaganda"

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  26. To MarkAlan, I think that any petition that is presented by an MPP or MP needs to be signed at the top corner of the petition not sure which side, on each page of the petition. An MP or MPP does not have to agree with a petition or sign their name on the petition, their job is to present it on behalf of the people.

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  27. "An MP or MPP does not have to agree with a petition or sign their name on the petition, their job is to present it on behalf of the people."

    The rules at Queen's Park are clear. Whoever presents the petition MUST agree to it.

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  28. "This statemnet is Assuming, bullsitting, lying and most of all 'Propaganda' "

    There a several news stories that speak directly to the fact that Toby signed while disagreeing with the parts of the petition. Does this not qualify as Toby encouraging the public to sign something they don't agree with?

    Would the average reader believe that if Toby can sign without supporting the full text then I can too?

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  29. "undermines and destroys anyone who the bully perceives to be an adversary, a potential threat, or who can see through the bully's mask

    is adept at creating conflict between those who would otherwise collate incriminating information about them"




    Wow! This part is amazing due to the fact we see McHale do this all the time.

    He seems to pick a different enemy each week and gets downright consumed with diviging people and trying to destroy them. And does he stop at his own obsession? No, he tries to bring the public along with him in his crusades. I readsomewhere that he actually went to jail for harrassment of a public official because of similar behaviour. That happened way before he arrived in the Caledonia scene. I know I saw it somewhere but can't recall where.

    Is there nothing the system can do to stop this person and his followers from the smear campaigns he starts against anyone who won't bow down to him?

    Who's next on his list?

    Does it seem that Fantino caught on to McHale well before the general public did? His rants against McHale certainly seem reasonable now.

    Donna, you are doing a big public service right now in exposing McHale and his gang of 8 for what they really are. And the timing of it is perfect given the serious accusations against Toby and Hewitt that they are making.

    I commend you.

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  30. I will correct myself actually.

    Donna, you aren't exposing them at all. They are doing it themselves.

    I will say one thing about your subject about lying.

    Most people who claim everone else is lying, are usually the biggest liars themselves. It's projectionist behaviour and is a recognised trait in the psychiatric community and the assessments they do of people.

    Similar to the theory that a thief has the most locks on his own doors.

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  31. I hope this helps anyone who is interested!

    Petitioning the Legislative Assembly of Ontario
    Residents of the Province of Ontario have the right to petition their legislators at Queen's Park.

    A petition is a request that the Parliament of Ontario take some specific action (or refrain from taking some action) to redress a public grievance. The action requested must be within the scope of jurisdiction of the Ontario Legislative Assembly, and the request must be clear, temperate, proper and respectful.
    Form and Content

    A petition must be addressed to either the Parliament, Legislature or Legislative Assembly of Ontario. Petitions addressed to the Government of Ontario or to a particular minister cannot be accepted.

    Petitions must be written, typewritten or printed, and it is recommended that the paper be standard letter or legal size.

    If a petition consists of more than one sheet of signatures, the text of the petition must appear at the top of every sheet. Each person petitioning the Parliament of Ontario must print his or her name and address and sign his or her name under the text of the petition.

    A petition must contain original signatures only, written directly on the face of the petition and not pasted or transferred to it. Petitions must be free of erasures or insertions. Petitioners must be residents of the Province of Ontario; it is acceptable for petitioners to be under the age of majority.

    Presentation

    A petition may only be presented by a Member of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, and it must comply with the requirements above before the member may present it.

    It is not the practice in the Ontario Legislature for the Speaker or a minister of the Crown to present a petition. Petitions received by a minister of the Crown are usually presented by the Chief Government Whip.

    A petition may be presented in 2 ways:

    at any time during a Session by an M.P.P. filing it with the Clerk of the House (for such purposes; a letter should be sent to the Clerk by the M.P.P. filing the petition requesting that the enclosed original petition, with the M.P.P.'s signature affixed to it, be filed);
    by an M.P.P. from his or her place in the House during Routine Proceedings under the proceeding "Petitions".

    The M.P.P. may make a brief statement only, summarizing the contents of the petition and indicating the number of signatures attached to the petition.

    No debate is allowed on the presentation of the petition. The proceeding "Petitions" is limited to 15 minutes on any sitting day.

    The petition will be numbered and recorded as a sessional paper and the subject-matter of the petition, and the name of the M.P.P. who presented it, will be printed in the Votes and Proceedings. If the House is not meeting on the day on which the petition is presented the petition will be recorded in the Votes and Proceedings of the next day on which the House meets.

    Within 24 sitting days of the day on which the presentation of the petition is recorded in the Votes and Proceedings, the government is required to file a response to the petition with the Clerk of the House and to provide a copy of the response to the M.P.P. who presented the petition. The response of the government is also noted in the Votes and Proceedings.

    The signature of an M.P.P. who presents a petition must be on the front sheet of the petition. It is recommended that the M.P.P.'s signature appear in the top left corner of the front sheet of the petition.

    It is the responsibility of the petitioner(s) to arrange for a Member of the Legislative Assembly to present a petition; an M.P.P. cannot be compelled to present a petition, and presentation of a petition by an M.P.P. does not imply that he or she endorses the contents of the petition.

    For further information, contact:
    Jounals and procedural Research Branch
    Room 1521, Whitney Block
    Queen's Park
    Toronto, Ontario
    M7A 1A2

    Telephone: 416 - 325-7350
    (Collect calls will be accepted)
    FAX: 416 - 325-3534
    journals@ontla.ola.org

    Standing Order 38 of the
    Legislative Assembly of Ontario

    PETITIONS

    Presentation by filing with Clerk
    38. (a) A petition to the House may be presented at any time during the Session by a member filing it with the Clerk of the House or in the manner set out in clause (b)
    Presentation in House Member to summarize contents
    b) A member may present a petition in the House during Routine Proceedings under the proceeding "Petitions". The member may make a brief statement summarizing the contents of the petition and indicating the number of signatures attached thereto.

    Petitions to be certified as to form
    (c) No member may seek to present unless it has previously been given to the Clerk of the

    Assembly who has examined it and certified that it is correct as to form and content.
    Same

    d) In order to be certifed by the Clerk, every petition shall:

    Form of address

    (i) be addressed to the Parliament, Legislature or Legislative Assembly of Ontario;
    Request for action

    (ii) contain a clear, proper and respectful request that the House take some action within its authority;

    No erasures or insertions

    (iii) be written, typewritten or printed, without erasures or insertions;
    Contents

    (iv) have its request appear at the top of every sheet, if it consists of more than one sheet of signatures; and

    Petitioners

    (v) contain the names, addresses and original signatures written directly on the face of the petition and not pasted thereon or otherwise transferred to it.

    Members responsible for contents

    (e) Every member presenting a petition shall ensure that the petition conforms witht he Standing Orders.

    Signature of member required

    (f) The signature of every member presenting a petition shall be affixed to the petition.
    No debate on presentation

    (g) No debate shall be allowed on the presentation of a petition.
    Duration

    (h) The period for "Petitions" shall be limited to 15 minutes.

    Response by government

    (i) Within 24 sitting days of its presentation, the government shall file a response to a petition witht he Clerk of the House and shall provide a copy of the response to the member who presented the petition.

    Sample Petition

    It is recommended that petitions be on 8-1/2" x 11"; or 8-1/2" x 14" paper and be in the following form:

    http://www.numberswatchdog.com/

    ReplyDelete
  32. "What Happens when you Lie?

    Well I think that if you ask "10" people you will get "10" different answers."

    Did you pick "10" people because that is how many actually read this drivel of yours, or because that's how many votes you got in your oh so successful attempt to run for Council?

    ReplyDelete
  33. "presentation of a petition by an M.P.P. does not imply that he or she endorses the contents of the petition."

    Bingo!

    And also, it says that his signature still has to go at the top left of the front page and he has to sign it as he presents it.

    So all this other nonsense that McHale and his few followers means nothing.

    ReplyDelete
  34. "What Happens when you Lie?

    Well I think that if you ask "10" people you will get "10" different answers."

    Did you pick "10" people because that is how many actually read this drivel of yours, or because that's how many votes you got in your oh so successful attempt to run for Council?"

    ------------------------------------------


    They never quit, do they Donna?

    Stay strong Donna.

    Everyone reading this sees them for what they are now. We're all just shaking our heads along with you.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Toby Barrett represents the people of Haldimand-Norfolk...ALL OF THEM...whether he agrees with them or not. Not everyone voted for Toby Barrett and he is smart enough to realize that he represents them as well. He is a seasoned MPP and well versed in the workings of legislature.

    Whoever it was that made the comment: "Did you pick "10" people because that is how many actually read this drivel of yours, or because that's how many votes you got in your oh so successful attempt to run for Council?"

    You need to do some serious growing up.

    ReplyDelete
  36. If Donna had the guts to throw her hat in the ring, then we all owe her a big applause. Even if she lost an election, she contributed to the process of Democracy. And that is a precious contribution.

    May I remind everyone that Obama himself had a few failed election attempts.

    It's a process and a few failures (false starts as I call them) along the way are actually necessary to make a candidate stronger in the end. We all win when people stick their necks out there.

    Good for you Donna.

    I agree with the previous entry that said these people attacking Donna need to grow up. And we all know where this is coming from the past few days.

    Refer to the -bullying- post and that says it all.

    ReplyDelete
  37. "I agree with the previous entry that said these people attacking Donna need to grow up."

    Does this apply only to those who attack Donna or the people to attach others as well?

    ReplyDelete
  38. Seems the petition doesn't even meet the reqirements just on the face of it. Too funny that is.

    ReplyDelete
  39. "Does this apply only to those who attack Donna or the people to attach others as well?"

    Donna or anyone else didn't launch any attacks.

    She and others are only responding to the unprovoked attacks by Gary McHale, CANACE and whomever else has been brainwashed by them.

    Donna, Toby and Hewitt have not been the aggressors here and deserve the opportunity to be defended against those who have been.

    There is a big difference.

    The bully behaviour by McHale and his sheep is really showing itself now.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Donna, I have made a decision not to read any more boards that continue to post anything signed: Anonymous......People who cannot put their name under their comments deserve to be shunned. Please discontinue sending me your link. Elizabeth Hutchison

    ReplyDelete
  41. This was just sent out by McHale!

    There have been many people posting on other boards trying to create problems. Many of these boards have no problem allowing people to post almost anything while remaining Anonymous. The problem is these posters could be anyone including some of the Native Protesters who want to do everything they can to keep residents divided.

    I have spoken to Mr. Hewitt and we agree 100% that we all need to work together. We cannot allow people to divide this real grassroots movement. Politicians in general cannot be counted on from one day to the next however, if we, the People, remain united then maybe these politicians will finally have to step up to the plate and deal with the will of the People.

    From the beginning we have supported Hewitt's petition and have actively been getting many signatures. Each of us in Caledonia can play a role to ensure as many signatures as possible are on the petition. The petition is not the work of any one person but the hard work of dozens of people over the past two years.

    I want to thank Mr. Hewitt for the petition and for bringing attention to the issues in Caledonia. This is just one more example of how everyone can work together.

    We removed two threads off this board to allow time for myself and Hewitt to do press releases to ensure that the petition can move ahead. Unlike other boards, we take these issues seriously and realize that our material affects public opinion. As such we make every attempt to ensure the accuracy of the information as well as coordinating a united message before posting some emotional B.S. as you see on so many boards.

    Endless rants by the same few people on these boards will not help Caledonia which is why CaledoniaWakeUpCall has never allowed people to post on it's site. CWUC has been proven to stand above the boards by providing clear and accurate information from many news sources and our efforts have been recognized by the Ryerson Review of Journalism as well as media outlets like the National Post.

    We continue with a firm commitment to truthful reporting of the facts - something many people hate due to their own agendas. We firmly believe that truth is important and clearly we have demonstrated that when one relies on Truth and the 'Rule of Law' then one has victories in court as well as in the public forum.

    In closing we want to encourage everyone to support the petition and to stop the Anonymous posts on boards which do nothing but hurt the cause.

    Gary McHale

    ReplyDelete
  42. So Hewitt and McHale are partners now?

    ----interesting----

    Thanks for the heads up Gary. Haldimand needs to know that!

    ReplyDelete
  43. Does the above posted statement allegedly by Gary McHale mean that only non native people are entitled to an opinion?

    I take it that Mr. McHale's own forum will now require people to post their real names along with their comments.

    ReplyDelete
  44. I guess Gary calling other people liars doesn't hurt the cause? Perhaps Gary has jumped the shark, like Fonzi did.

    ReplyDelete
  45. "I guess Gary calling other people liars doesn't hurt the cause? "

    I think McHale backs up his statemets with facts. Most here do not.

    ReplyDelete
  46. "In closing we want to encourage everyone to support the petition and to stop the Anonymous posts on boards which do nothing but hurt the cause.

    Gary McHale"

    Could someone please explain to me what "cause" is being hurt by people utilizing one of the most sacred rights that they have...Freedom of Expession?

    ReplyDelete
  47. "In closing we want to encourage everyone to support the petition and to stop the Anonymous posts on boards which do nothing but hurt the cause."

    Is there another petition being started to stop Anonymous posts on internet dicscussion forums?

    ReplyDelete
  48. "anonymous" is a security measure that every internet expert in the entire world recommends and advises.

    Don't listen to these idiots Donna. Being "anonymous" on the internet is everyone's "right"

    Every Administrator on the millions and millions of websites in the world recommend it as a part of their responsibility.

    Protection of individual's identity is paramount on the internet if the user chooses to be anonymous.

    Don't let these idiots -bully- you on even that fundamental right.

    ReplyDelete
  49. yah, whatever "anonymous"

    (the irony is glaring)

    ReplyDelete
  50. This whole discussion has gone beyond ridiculous, now we have an anonymous poster calling another poster a "true coward" for posting anonymously. WHAT!?!?!?!

    ReplyDelete
  51. Thanks for your comments everyone.

    I have never had a problem with people posting anonymous. This way I am not editing any posts. Actually you see them most of the time before I do.

    So excuse me a moment while I clean up a few posts that don't belong.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Sorry Elizabeth I missed reading your post. I will miss your comments! No problem, I have deleted you from my mailing list. Anyone else that wishes to be deleted from my list please let me know.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Mark-Alan Whittle said:

    "I guess Gary calling other people liars doesn't hurt the cause? Perhaps Gary has jumped the shark, like Fonzi did."

    February 22, 2009 2:33 PM
    _____________________________

    While I'm not certain that your post was doing anything but offering another question into this discussion, it has raised a question in my mind.

    Toby Barrett testified under oath by subpoena Dec. 24, 2007 at the bequest of Gary McHale. Thereafter, Toby Barrett was heralded by McHale as speaking the truth which served agendas.

    Either Gary McHale believes Toby Barrett is telling the truth or Gary McHale believes that Toby Barrett is a liar as he has recently stated.

    Jeff Parkinson asked a good question in one of his writings which asks the proverbial question (paraphrasing here as the material seems to have disappeared from Parkinson's blog): If Toby lied about signing the petition, what else has he lied about?

    ReplyDelete
  54. "Toby Barrett testified under oath by subpoena Dec. 24, 2007 at the bequest of Gary McHale. Thereafter, Toby Barrett was heralded by McHale as speaking the truth which served agendas.

    Either Gary McHale believes Toby Barrett is telling the truth or Gary McHale believes that Toby Barrett is a liar as he has recently stated."





    Wow!..good point!

    Gary heralded Toby as a "teller of the truth" when he subpoenaded Toby for court.

    but now McHale calls Toby a liar ? which is it Gary? do tell!

    ReplyDelete
  55. "Gary heralded Toby as a "teller of the truth" when he subpoenaded Toby for court."

    McHale subpoenaed Fantino for court so does that mean McHale believes Fantino is telling the truth? He also subpoenaed several OPP officers and Linda Powless of Turtle Island News. Amazing the logic of some people. Saying anything just to attack McHale on something. If you don't have something then you just make something up.

    I thought you subpoenaed people to force them to true the truth under oath not because you believe they speak the truth outside of court.

    You quoted McHale with the word "teller of the truth" referring to Toby. Can you post when McHale has ever made such a statement or were you just posting B.S.?

    ReplyDelete
  56. Gary needs a hobby.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Fantino did not have to appear on his subpoena. This is known.

    Quote: "I thought you subpoenaed people to force them to true the truth under oath not because you believe they speak the truth outside of court."

    That is like saying that everyone is lying unless they are under oath in a court of law. That would be everyone. The world is doomed if that is the thinking.

    Quote: "You quoted McHale with the word "teller of the truth" referring to Toby. Can you post when McHale has ever made such a statement or were you just posting B.S.?"

    I didn't use those words "teller of the truth", but they clearly serve agendas when the suit fits eh?

    ReplyDelete
  58. I'm sorry but Donna Pitcher who claimed she would never "censor" any comment seems to have censored me.

    I said to the person whining earlier about using anonymity as a safety precaution that your statement was spoken like a true coward.

    I do realize that I too am posting anonymously at the moment, but I'm only doing it because I'm too embarrased to let anyone know that I actually read something on this site... hmm that might explain alot!

    Hey Donna, we're all mortified that someone might actually think we held our noses long enough to read this pile of fresh, runny, steaming bullshit that you call a website.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Anonymous said...
    I'm sorry but Donna Pitcher who claimed she would never "censor" any comment seems to have censored me.

    I said to the person whining earlier about using anonymity as a safety precaution that your statement was spoken like a true coward.

    I do realize that I too am posting anonymously at the moment, but I'm only doing it because I'm too embarrased to let anyone know that I actually read something on this site... hmm that might explain alot!

    Hey Donna, we're all mortified that someone might actually think we held our noses long enough to read this pile of fresh, runny, steaming bullshit that you call a website.

    February 22, 2009 6:15 PM
    _______________

    'Tis not for the faint of heart.

    ReplyDelete
  60. "Fantino did not have to appear on his subpoena. This is known."

    A subpoena is issued by the court and Fantino must appear. Do you think Fantino showed up to help McHale or because he had to?

    ReplyDelete
  61. "A subpoena is issued by the court and Fantino must appear. Do you think Fantino showed up to help McHale or because he had to?"

    Did Fantino appear? No. Was a warrant issued for his arrest for failure to appear? NO!

    The subpoena(s) must have been flawed would be my best guess.

    ReplyDelete
  62. "Did Fantino appear? No. Was a warrant issued for his arrest for failure to appear? NO!"

    This shows the quality of the knowledge of the people who post on this board. Fantino did appear and McHale questioned him for a full day. Fantino was ordered by the Judge to appear again in April to answer more of McHale's questions.

    This information has only been printed in several newspapers as well as being on CHCH TV.

    To quote Mr. Hewitt "you allow your personal conflict with Gary McHale to cloud your judgement" and you post anything you want as long as it is against McHale.

    ReplyDelete
  63. I see Donna hasn't learn anything since November when the following letter appeared in the Regional News about her board.




    Regional News Letter by Margaret Howatt Nov 26, 2008

    Hatred is alive and well in Caledonia.

    If you do not believe that, look up "Haldimand's Unheard voice". The viciousness spewed forth is amazing, egged on by the blog owner. It is interesting that the "anonymous" who demean and bad mouth the McHales, do not have the guts to sign their names. Sort of like the KKK and mighty brave warriors who hide behind their masks.

    I guess I should sign "anonymous" in case someone decides to poison my dog again.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Anonymous said...
    "Did Fantino appear? No. Was a warrant issued for his arrest for failure to appear? NO!"

    This shows the quality of the knowledge of the people who post on this board. Fantino did appear and McHale questioned him for a full day. Fantino was ordered by the Judge to appear again in April to answer more of McHale's questions.

    This information has only been printed in several newspapers as well as being on CHCH TV.

    To quote Mr. Hewitt "you allow your personal conflict with Gary McHale to cloud your judgement" and you post anything you want as long as it is against McHale."
    ________________________

    The first subpoenas issued for the OPP officers to appear were overturned/dismissed. Fantino was among those subpoenas, tell me I'm wrong. Fantino did appear at a later date, but not the first time.

    Quote: "This shows the quality of the knowledge of the people who post on this board."

    Dude! Have you no class or self respect whatsoever? High time that you start realizing that you do not know everything, nor do I, but I'm willing to admit it right along with my ability to admit that I'm wrong when I'm wrong.

    Quote: "To quote Mr. Hewitt "you allow your personal conflict with Gary McHale to cloud your judgement" and you post anything you want as long as it is against McHale."

    Did Mr. Hewitt actually say this? If he did, he'll be getting a visit from me tomorrow.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Anonymous said...
    "I see Donna hasn't learn anything since November when the following letter appeared in the Regional News about her board.



    Regional News Letter by Margaret Howatt Nov 26, 2008

    Hatred is alive and well in Caledonia.

    If you do not believe that, look up "Haldimand's Unheard voice". The viciousness spewed forth is amazing, egged on by the blog owner. It is interesting that the "anonymous" who demean and bad mouth the McHales, do not have the guts to sign their names. Sort of like the KKK and mighty brave warriors who hide behind their masks.

    I guess I should sign "anonymous" in case someone decides to poison my dog again."

    Is there a point to bringing up this letter that was posted way back when in the past?

    I hope the dog is ok tho.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Anonymous said...
    "This was just sent out by McHale!"

    To who????

    I usually recieve 6 copies of everything that he sends out and I've yet to receive a single copy of what was previously posted.

    What time of the wee hours of the morning should I expect my inboxes to light up tonight? Midnight? 1AM+? 2AM+? 3AM+? Or all of the above?

    ReplyDelete
  67. Thanks for all your comments.

    We are off track but that seems to happen pretty easy. One person makes a comment and it brings up a whole new conversation. Debating is a good thing.

    I would like to address this poster;

    I'm sorry but Donna Pitcher who claimed she would never "censor" any comment seems to have censored me.

    I said to the person whining earlier about using anonymity as a safety precaution that your statement was spoken like a true coward.

    I do realize that I too am posting anonymously at the moment, but I'm only doing it because I'm too embarrased to let anyone know that I actually read something on this site... hmm that might explain alot!

    Hey Donna, we're all mortified that someone might actually think we held our noses long enough to read this pile of fresh, runny, steaming bullshit that you call a website.

    I deleted the following comment "Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Haldimand What Happens when You Lie?": Spoken like a true coward.

    You only explained who this comment was in regards to after you posted your complaint about being censored. Besides it doesn't seem to matter anyway. If you are of the opinion that my blog is as you stated; we held our noses long enough to read this pile of fresh, runny, steaming bullshit that you call a website. It wouldn't matter what I say.

    I do find it interesting that Gary McHale would have said this; "In closing we want to encourage everyone to support the petition and to stop the Anonymous posts on boards which do nothing but hurt the cause. Gary McHale"

    On Gary's board you can post both as anonymous, your real name (which most do not) or a "handle name". So does this mean that Gary only believes in free speach when a person is agreeing with his opinion? I guess we are going to see Gary change the rules on his blog, no more posting under "anonymous". I do not edit, delete or read any comments on my blog before they are posted. I will delete a post if I feel it is in my personal opinion desrespectful! Every one has their own personal opinion and I respect that. In saying this it does not mean that I have to "keep my mouth shut" because I may not agree with someone. I have the right as each of us do to "voice" our opinions. Thank God we live in a country where we have these rights!

    As far as the poster that posted the letter to the editor. I find this very funny actually. I read this letter back in Nov.of 2008 and have a copy of this letter on file. The Regional Newspaper is not an "online" newspaper, so why would anyone but myself really be interested in having a copy of this letter? Especially when this person would have had to type it out and save it! Only the anonymous poster knows the answer to that.

    So unless someone has something to add to the origional blog, I will be shutting down the comments very shortly. Cripes I will probably be accused of abusing someones free speach.

    Sometimes you just can't win!

    ReplyDelete
  68. He probably just penned it and posted it in here because he can't contain his excitement.

    It will probably appear in everyone's in-box later I'm guessing.

    He's obviously trying to get everyone believing that he and Ken Hewitt are new partners and best buddies. Just to drive a wedge between Ken and Toby and everyone else.

    It's a familiar pattern.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Well, before you lock this conversation, I want to thank-you Donna.

    It was extremely important for people to see this person in action and his methods.

    A lot was learned in these two conversations the past two days.

    Many eyes opened too!

    It was well worth the time I'd say.

    Thanks again Donna.

    ReplyDelete
  70. Gary had posted the letter above that someone said Gary had just sent this out, in fact it is only posted on his board. So this is where it has come from, who posted here it here? Well maybe it could be one of his anonymous posters on his site.

    The letter above in the Regional newspapers was also posted on Gary's board, funny anonymous posted right after Gary!

    It seems what is good for the goose is not good for the gander.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Donna Pitcher said:

    "Sometimes you just can't win!"

    Sometimes Donna.

    Most times, my experiences have shown me that even the smallest successes and the bravest of hearts are worth far more in service for everyone when given with humility.

    Please don't ever stop being humble Donna Pitcher. :o)

    ReplyDelete
  72. If you took the time to become familiar with the CWUC board before speaking about it, you would know that it is not possible nor has it ever been possible to leave an anonymous post on that site. There is I believe a user (as in one person) who has the username "Anonymous" much as everyone else has some sort of handle on each board.

    Then again ensuring the accuracy of your posts is clearly not a strong suit of yours is it Donna?

    You're going to shut down the comments soon because circumstances have not progressed as you anticipated and your hopes of showing someone other than Barrett to be a liar didn't work out so well now did they?

    A copy of that Regional letter about the hatred spewing from this site has been circulating online since the day it was first published and you would know this if you took the time to check your facts but we already covered your inability to research before speaking.

    You say I am entitled to my opinion so I would like for a moment to re-examine a few aspects of your original post as defining lies is an important quest.

    "Propaganda"

    Propaganda is anything which is posted at Haldimands Unheard Voice which is an insignificant blog run by an insignificant womam.

    "Bullshit"

    The result of Donna Pitcher or Toby Barrett opening their mouths.

    "Fabrication"

    The things Donna Pitcher says

    "Bold Faced Lie"

    Touted as facts by Donna Pitcher and apparently Toby Barrett.

    "Lying by omission"

    When Donna posts anonymously and omits mentioning that it's her

    "Lie to Children"

    When Donna Pitcher speaks to children

    "White Lie"

    When Donna speaks during a snow storm

    "Noble Lie"

    What Donna Pitcher and Toby Barrett think they are actually telling people

    "Misleading/Dissembling"

    Donna Pitcher

    ReplyDelete
  73. Gary said; We removed two threads off this board to allow time for myself and Hewitt to do press releases to ensure that the petition can move ahead. Unlike other boards, we take these issues seriously and realize that our material affects public opinion. As such we make every attempt to ensure the accuracy of the information as well as coordinating a united message before posting some emotional B.S. as you see on so many boards.

    So why post it in the first place? Just like Jeff's nasty blog about Toby, poof it's gone as well. A few days ago Mchale sent out an apology to the Regional News because he lied about them refusing to print anything of Toby's. So what is the flavour of the day today? Say what; to ensure that the petition can move ahead? It seems like the author of this letter is trying to stop it. Whether Mchale wants to believe this or not...the petition has been moving on just fine......I hope that Ken Hewitt is not going to actually trust Mchale after all this BS!

    ReplyDelete
  74. Anonymous said...
    "If you took the time to become familiar with the CWUC board before speaking about it, you would know that it is not possible nor has it ever been possible to leave an anonymous post on that site. There is I believe a user (as in one person) who has the username "Anonymous" much as everyone else has some sort of handle on each board."

    This is the link that is being spoken of and you know it:

    http://www.marchforfreedom.com/smf/index.php

    Spin it all you want. Who is trying to zoom who? Pullleeeeezzze!

    Are you just trying to silence Donna and here posters on this blog by continuing to slant the truth?

    ReplyDelete
  75. Thank you for the clarification about CWUC's board. I do not go there. So CWUC has one person that has the handle "anonymous". So I would assume (and do hate to assume) that Jeff and Marks blogs are the same way. I must say that your poster named anonymous on all three sites has a lot to say! My apology!

    "Lie to Children"

    When Donna Pitcher speaks to children

    Now that one I will call very, very disrespectful! I will also call that very, very petty in nature. Very Very low life of you! But comments like this do show a persons true colours. I will not go down to your level, and I hope that no one else does!!!! If anyone posts on this posters level I will "DELETE" it!

    ReplyDelete
  76. Anonymous said...
    "You say I am entitled to my opinion so I would like for a moment to re-examine a few aspects of your original post as defining lies is an important quest.

    "Propaganda"

    Propaganda is anything which is posted at Haldimands Unheard Voice which is an insignificant blog run by an insignificant womam.

    "Bullshit"

    The result of Donna Pitcher or Toby Barrett opening their mouths.

    "Fabrication"

    The things Donna Pitcher says

    "Bold Faced Lie"

    Touted as facts by Donna Pitcher and apparently Toby Barrett.

    "Lying by omission"

    When Donna posts anonymously and omits mentioning that it's her

    "Lie to Children"

    When Donna Pitcher speaks to children

    "White Lie"

    When Donna speaks during a snow storm

    "Noble Lie"

    What Donna Pitcher and Toby Barrett think they are actually telling people

    "Misleading/Dissembling"

    Donna Pitcher

    February 22, 2009 9:20 PM "

    _______________

    Donna Pitcher is also the same person who said that you could call her any name that you want so long as it was not against another.

    Nice to see you found the courage to take advantage of such an offer to do so...shame on you.

    ReplyDelete
  77. "If you took the time to become familiar with the CWUC board before speaking about it, you would know that it is not possible nor has it ever been possible to leave an anonymous post on that site. There is I believe a user (as in one person) who has the username "Anonymous" much as everyone else has some sort of handle on each board."

    This is the link that is being spoken of and you know it:

    http://www.marchforfreedom.com/smf/index.php

    Spin it all you want. Who is trying to zoom who? Pullleeeeezzze!

    Are you just trying to silence Donna and here posters on this blog by continuing to slant the truth?

    Damn right I know it and so does she. The difference is I know that you can't post anonymously on that board while she posts it here as though it's a fact. As I said before there is a person on that site with the username or handle if you prefer "Anonymous" who has made several posts. That does not give everyone the ability to post as Anonymous as Donna said.

    That's not spin, it's fact. If you disagree then go to that site and look for yourself.

    I'm not trying to silence Donna and I could give a rats ass about the very few people who post here repeatedly so it will appear that this site is of some importance.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Anonymous said...
    "If you took the time to become familiar with the CWUC board before speaking about it, you would know that it is not possible nor has it ever been possible to leave an anonymous post on that site. There is I believe a user (as in one person) who has the username "Anonymous" much as everyone else has some sort of handle on each board."

    This is the link that is being spoken of and you know it:

    http://www.marchforfreedom.com/smf/index.php

    Spin it all you want. Who is trying to zoom who? Pullleeeeezzze!

    Are you just trying to silence Donna and here posters on this blog by continuing to slant the truth?

    Damn right I know it and so does she. The difference is I know that you can't post anonymously on that board while she posts it here as though it's a fact. As I said before there is a person on that site with the username or handle if you prefer "Anonymous" who has made several posts. That does not give everyone the ability to post as Anonymous as Donna said.

    That's not spin, it's fact. If you disagree then go to that site and look for yourself.

    I'm not trying to silence Donna and I could give a rats ass about the very few people who post here repeatedly so it will appear that this site is of some importance.

    February 22, 2009 9:36 PM "
    ________________________
    Trust me on this one...it's only the rodent's rectum that is allowed to post on the march for freedom forum...everyone of dissenting view has been banned by he who heralds "Freedom of Speech".

    Next.

    ReplyDelete
  79. Well there is a spin for you Donna. A kick in the ass and a compliment at the same time.

    I want to say thanks Donna as well. You are a very strong woman, keep up the good work!

    ReplyDelete
  80. You're doing a nice little job of trying to distract from the point which was that Donna lied in stating that anyone can post there anonymously or with a handle or using their real name. The latter 2 of those statements are correct but the first is a crock.

    Your perception of the members of that site has no bearing on the fact that Donna was wrong and she should take the time to do some fact finding before claiming to have knowledge.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Anonymous said...
    You're doing a nice little job of trying to distract from the point which was that Donna lied in stating that anyone can post there anonymously or with a handle or using their real name. The latter 2 of those statements are correct but the first is a crock.

    Your perception of the members of that site has no bearing on the fact that Donna was wrong and she should take the time to do some fact finding before claiming to have knowledge."

    ____________________

    Try looking at it this way;

    There are more letters in the word CANACE then there are active posters on the March for Freedom forum.

    There is some clarity for you.

    ReplyDelete
  82. "I want to say thanks Donna as well. You are a very strong woman, keep up the good work!"

    Smell isn't everything

    ReplyDelete
  83. "Try looking at it this way;

    There are more letters in the word CANACE then there are active posters on the March for Freedom forum.

    There is some clarity for you."

    No there is another attempt at distraction from my point which you continue to fail to acknowledge.

    Donna lied end of story. I'd love to spend all night arguing semantics with you but I have an ungodly early shift tomorrow so that would not be advisable.

    ReplyDelete
  84. "Try looking at it this way;

    There are more letters in the word CANACE then there are active posters on the March for Freedom forum.

    There is some clarity for you."

    No there is another attempt at distraction from my point which you continue to fail to acknowledge.

    Donna lied end of story. I'd love to spend all night arguing semantics with you but I have an ungodly early shift tomorrow so that would not be advisable.

    February 22, 2009 9:58 PM "
    _____________________
    Where is the lie?

    Are people allowed to post anonymously on the March for Freedom forum or not?

    You know the answer.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Anonymous said...
    You're doing a nice little job of trying to distract from the point which was that Donna lied in stating that anyone can post there anonymously or with a handle or using their real name. The latter 2 of those statements are correct but the first is a crock.

    Your perception of the members of that site has no bearing on the fact that Donna was wrong and she should take the time to do some fact finding before claiming to have knowledge.

    As I stated ealier anonymous I do not go there (CWUC), and frankly I am not interested. It is obvious that this anonymous poster knows the inside confidential workings of CWUC and march for freedom blogs. I was wrong in the fact of stating how CWUC and the march for freedom blogs work. My apology once again. I did that god awful thing and "assumed" that those blogs worked the same as mine. What an ass I can be sometimes!

    It is obvious that I will need to shut down the comments now as I will be turning in. God knows what will be posted by morning.

    Thanks again everyone, have a good night!

    ReplyDelete